THE CONVERSATION
This is a transcript of the conversation:
| Compliant | Where’s your mask? |
| Dissenter | Sorry? |
| Compliant | Where’s your mask? |
| Dissenter | I don’t have one |
| Compliant | You can get one …there’s a pile over there |
| Dissenter | No, I don’t wear one |
| Compliant | What do you mean? |
| Dissenter | I don’t wear one |
| Compliant | Oh, are you exempt or something? a disability? Do you have a card a lanyard? |
| Dissenter | No, I am not exempt |
| Compliant | But if you’re not exempt you have to wear one… what’s your excuse? |
| Dissenter | I don’t have one .. I don’t have to wear one…I don’t need an excuse…I’m just not wearing one |
| Compliant | Why not? You have to… |
| Dissenter | No, I don’t have to… you know as well as I do that they don’t do any good and a lot of harm. There is no reason why we should wear masks. A mask is a symbol of subjugation, a badge to humiliate. I am just not wearing one |
| Compliant | Ach, don’t give us this subjugation humiliation crap. Don’t be silly. Anyway It’s mandatory, it’s the law and you could be passing the virus on to someone else who could get ill and die – you could cause someone to die… its your civic duty to wear one |
| Dissenter | But I don’t have the virus |
| Compliant | You could have |
| Dissenter | I could, but I don’t |
| Compliant | But how do you know that you don’t. |
| Dissenter | I don’t have any of the symptoms that they tell you about, the cough, the fever, loss of…. |
| Compliant | But you could be a carrier of it without knowing it. |
| Dissenter | I could be, but I am not |
| Compliant | But that’s crazy and stupid and reckless too! How do you know? Eh? Have you had the vaccine? Have you been double jabbed? |
| Dissenter | No I haven’t and I’m not getting it…and anyway it’s my decision |
| Compliant | But that’s selfish!! |
| Dissenter | Eh? Its selfish not to take something to supposedly protect myself? |
| Compliant | Its not about you!!! its your civic duty to get vaccinated |
| Dissenter | Oh so its all about civic duty? Well, that’s where you are wrong… It doesn’t prevent infection or transmission, we know that, the evidence is in. We had a perfectly controlled experiment on the Royal Navy flotilla. There were 100 cases of coronavirus among the crew on the Queen Elizabeth all of whom were double vaccinated and they stated that they were operating all the social distancing measures masks and hand sanitising etc. So, there you have it. With the vaccine I can still get infected and I can still pass it on so on that score it doesn’t work. Vaccination can only be purely for personal protection, and a personal choice to do with personal risk. There is absolutely no social obligation to get vaccinated to protect others, and the idea of vaccinating children is not just crazy and senseless its terribly terribly dangerous and irresponsible… |
| Compliant | Oh so you’re an anti-vaxer now too.. you’ll be a covid denier as well I suppose… |
| Dissenter | Oh, don’t give me these names, No!!! I am not anti-vaccination, I just don’t want this one. I am not sure if it safe… |
| Compliant | Of course it is… its been approved by all the important bodies and… |
| Dissenter | But it’s not licenced, it’s still experimental we have no idea what bad effects may come from it. I have no idea what effect it may have on my grandaughter’s baby if she gets pregnant. We have just no idea what effects it may have on child bearing women or on fertility. You see I remember Thalidomide the wonder drug that was developed by…and it’s hard to believe this … by a German company based on the work of a former Nazi who worked for Mengele.. it was a wonder drug that would sort out morning sickness and it was only when the babies were born that they discovered the horrors of what it did. This vaccine has been tested over something like 4 months and from what I remember it takes 9 months for a baby. So we can’t know if it’s safe… |
| Compliant | Yes we do. They wouldn’t say it was safe unless it was. The pharmaceutical companies would not risk any mishap. They would be sued out of existence if there was a problem… |
| Dissenter | Funny you should say that, because the drug companies were given special dispensation that they would not be sued if there was a disaster. They only took on the work on that basis. Anyway, I’ve read the literature that they give you about the jab and they more or less say that they don’t know if It’s safe… |
| Compliant | What! I don’t believe it… you’re havering there … |
| Dissenter | Well look I’ve got one here NHS Scotland IMPORTANT INFORMATION please read this leaflet before your get the vaccine under “fertility” it says “There is no evidence to suggest that the Covid-19 vaccine will affect fertility in men or women” |
| Compliant | So it is safe – there is no evidence that it affects fertility… |
| Dissenter | You don’t get it do you? It’s a sleight of hand. What they say in the leaflet is absolutely true but it is written in such a way to make you think that there are no effects on fertility, when what it is actually saying is we don’t know if there are any. There is no evidence that there are. But there’s no evidence that there is not. |
| Compliant | Ach, it’s a waste of time talking to you… All these scientist and researchers all over the world can’t all be wrong… or do you think you are right and they are all wrong? |
| Dissenter | They could all be wrong and , of course there are a whole lot of others who say different and you probably won’t here about them because they are basically gagged or black listed or cancelled. |
| Compliant | Who? |
| Dissenter | Well… for a start… Sunetra Gupta, Mike Yeadon, Jay Bhattacharya, Martin Kulldorff, Robert Malone, Russel Blaylock, Peter MacCulloch, Karol Sikora, Peter Bregin,David Livermore, Carl Heneghan, John Lee… lots more… |
| Compliant | Oh I’m not sure why I bother… but look at it, the vaccine has broken the link between getting the virus and being sick. We know that for sure, So it works.. |
| Dissenter | No, we can’t be sure about that |
| Compliant | What! Oh come-on! for goodness sake! you are just being cantankerous. You are sold on conspiracy theories… You should get out more and stop listening to the lizards and phone mask conspiracy seeking creeps.. |
| Dissenter | I don’t and I’m not…. but back to the point…because one thing follows another doesn’t mean the first caused the second. It is a classic false philosophical argument – there is a name for it but I’ve forgotten what it is – something about correlation and causation – like, every time Grannie comes to tea it rains, so granny caused the rain. There might be a connection between the two but there is no proof that there is. It’s the same with Lock-downs. They say the restrictions work because once these are in place cases drop but they might have been dropping anyway…It can’t be proved one way or the other |
| Compliant | I was right, it’s a waste of time talking to you. You don’t really care do you? You want the virus to rip and if people die, too bad, as long as you can get to the pub and get on with your life. You are putting other people’s lives in danger. I can’t believe you would be so mean and so selfish. You are probably a grannie killer… |
| Dissenter | Oh!!! a grannie killer now! -You know that’s pretty rich. It’s the government who have been killing Grannies! you know that.. loading them off to care homes to get infected and die lonely and horrible deaths shut off from their loved ones. It is one the cruellest things about this whole debacle and there will be a reckoning. I am sure there will. When people find out what actually happened it could get very ugly… Someone must have known what they were doing. They weren’t interested in people’s lives they wanted to save the NHS and it’s all political. If you don’t see that, you must have blindly swallowed the whole thing. The NHS had to be protected at all costs to save the Tory party. If it collapsed under a Tory government, it would be a disaster for the party and the red walls would rise again. Care homes didn’t matter they were not the NHS. And all this nauseating clapping, sainthood, special services in St Paul’s Cathedral, oh dear,…. and now the George cross… |
| Compliant | I was right, it’s a waste of time talking to you… …. just keep away from me… …please… |
| Dissenter | No worries. |
Restless Spirit 
Excellent as always Crawford. Well done putting your head over the parapet!
You have made a bit of a straw man out your “Compliant” (unless, of course this is an actual transcript) and this makes it difficult to take the conversation seriously. You say “With the vaccine I can still get infected and I can still pass it on so on that score it doesn’t work. Vaccination can only be purely for personal protection, and a personal choice to do with personal risk. ” Of course you can still get infected if vaccinated but it makes it a lot less likely and so there is a measure of social responsibility involved (as with measles). So it is not true to say that vaccination is solely about you and the risks to you.
The “Compliant” was not a real person and the critique that I had built a straw man is fair. Trouble is, it has been hard to find a real person who would be up for that kind of discussion. It has been hard for me, certainly amongst friends and family and acquaintances, to find someone willing to do that. When the subject does come up, and I suggest an alternative view, it is either met with a quick dismissal and put down or stony silence.
I take the point and I agree that there is an element of social responsibility in taking or not taking the vaccine. I suppose there is an element of social responsibility in just about every intervention or action we take. And yes, I agree, we are not islands and what we do affects others. I just think the moral high ground that is taken on the issue is overplayed and it borders on scapegoating.
Potentially there can be scapegoating, granted. Not my experience.